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Post by jhornbr225 on Jun 3, 2019 20:19:54 GMT -5
One of the tasks on my to-do list is to change the tranny fluid in my 2005 Tacoma. The only problem is that Toyota, in their infinite wisdom back in those days, (and possibly still), says that the fluid lasts the life of the transmission, and therefore, you don't need to check it, therefore, you don't get a dipstick.
You get at least three holes in the transmission. They do give you a drain, a fill, and a level check hole. The fill is up on the side, towards the rear. You have to get a little pump to get the fluid in. The drain is on the bottom, of course. And the level check hole is...also on the bottom. From what I read, the fluid is supposed to come out that hole, as a slow trickle when the level is correct, and the fluid is the proper temperature. Problem is, there is no temp gauge on the dash, and reading the pan with an IR thermometer gives the wrong readings.
There is a way to jumper two pins on the OBDII connector, then turn the key on, shift from Drive to Neutral, like six times, or something like that. It puts you into temperature check mode. There is a light on the dash for tranny overtemp. In temp check mode, the light will come on when the fluid is at the proper temp 115-130 Degrees F. It will flash if you go over 130.
Doing some reading, I found that for the 2005-2009's, you can read the temp with one of those Bluetooth readers and a tablet. So, I modded my 7" Kindle Fire to get the Google Play Store on it. Then I downloaded the App Torque Lite. I followed all the directions I could find, entering custom PID's and entering a formula, but got no reading on the temp. Thinking it might be the fact that I was using the Lite, and not the full version, even though there were no posts definitively saying that the full version was required, I ponied up the $4.95 for the full version. I followed the directions for the PID's and the formulas again, and tonight I went out to the truck to try it again. And, I think it's working! It started at ambient, then climbed slowly while idling. I then went for a drive, and driving towards the highway, less than 55mph, it stayed cooler than I thought it would. When I got to the highway, I punched it merge on, and it climbed quickly. Coming back, sitting at the end of the ramp, waiting for traffic, it climbed again, but then cooled a little once I got moving.
That will make it much easier to check the level. There were people saying that they had drained what would come out, (about 3 quarts), measured it while cold, put back in the same amount they took out, and then did the jumper procedure to check the level, and found that they had to add some fluid. Like it was under filled from the factory. I suppose anything's possible.
There are people who have drained all their fluid by emptying the pan, then taking off the return hose, and letting that pump out into a container, then refilling it. I think it hold about 12 quarts, all in all. It's all trapped up inside and in the Torque Converter, that's why it all does not drain out of the pan when you pull the plug.
Personally I prefer the mindset of draining what I can, putting in fresh to bring it back up to full. Then drive a couple short trips to mix it all up, then repeat the procedure. Then repeat it again. Every time you repeat, the overall cleanliness of the fluid should get cleaner.
If I only had a dipstick, this would be much easier!
I guess the thing to ask is, if I have the PID's and the formulas, and plugged into my ODBII port, could Driveline display my transmission fluid temps?
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Post by Enforcer on Jun 4, 2019 6:41:06 GMT -5
Be easier to change the car by the sounds of things.
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Post by jhornbr225 on Jun 4, 2019 7:11:05 GMT -5
Good thing it's a truck. It makes it all worth it...
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Post by COMpulse on Jun 4, 2019 11:23:21 GMT -5
This is something I had started working on with my Taurus, reading custom PIDs. I was reading CAC temp (post-intercooler), Knock Retard, transmission gear #, and some other settings.
My plan was to support the config files used by the Torque app.
Then I spun the car into a pole and a building. And now I haven't been spending much time in my car.
So, I did start on it, but never finished it. It will take quite a bit of work.
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Post by jhornbr225 on Jun 4, 2019 21:16:28 GMT -5
That's cool. I didn't know if anything had already been implemented.
For as often as I really need it, the Torque thing works. I don't plan on changing this fluid all the time. I don't have a PC in the truck yet, so it would be my temporary one anyway. At this point there is nothing that important ODBII wise in the Accord that I need to connect for either. The Accord is just a regular 4 Cylinder manual transmission. Nice and simple, just the way I like it.
So, don't feel that you need to waste any time on it. I was just checking to see it was already in there.
I suppose I could always do that Bluestacks thing, run android, and put Torque on there...
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Post by revheadkev on Jun 5, 2019 1:06:35 GMT -5
There are Windows programs which allow you to read data and reset errors through an OBDII reader. If Driveline supports screens for embedded programs, then you could do it that way.
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Post by flylear45 on Jun 5, 2019 5:22:45 GMT -5
My 05 Jaguar is the same way. Sealed for life tranny. Same procedure for a refill and the fill plug is RIGHT next to the scalding hot exhaust pipe.
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Post by jhornbr225 on Jun 5, 2019 8:59:34 GMT -5
I have a USB based OBDLink SX, and it's associated software, it does codes, and gives me standard PID's but no manufacturer specific ones. At least not that I could find.
What Windows programs are you referring to, and will they do specific manufacturer PID's?
In Torque Pro, I entered this: (Torque Lite didn't work)
OBD2 Mode & PID: 21D9
Long Name: Transmission Temp
Short Name: Trans T
Minimum Value: 0
Maximum Value: 300
Scale Factor: x1
Unit Type: *F
Equation: ((((E*256)+F)*(7/100)-400)/10)
OBD Header: left blank
flylear, why are you filling it while it's hot? I can see draining it while it's hot, to get more crud out, but then by the time you measure the fluid, and get ready to re-fill, the pipe would hopefully have cooled somewhat. And remember, according to the manufacturer, it's sealed, we're not supposed to touch it anyway!
Kinda like my brother's Smart Car. The manual says change the oil every 10K. My uncle used to own and run a crankshaft grinding shop. So he saw many crankshafts that could have benefited from more frequent oil changes. My brother was arguing with him about how often to change the oil. My brother was sticking to the manual's 10K, saying "that's what's recommended". My uncle put it best. He told him, "You have to look at the source of the information. Their motivation is to sell you another car, not to make this one last forever. So go ahead and do what they say in the manual, and you'll be coming to see me, or scrapping the car. Or change it more often to make it last longer."
It kinda sucks, that we as consumers, have no real authority on which to depend on for reliable information on how to make the products we buy last longer. You can't trust the manufacturer implicitly. Their motivation is to sell you another car. Unfortunately, they do the engineering and choose the recommended fluids and intervals. Toyota recommends their Toyota WS fluid for my transmission. Is it synthetic? No. Is it actually any different as far as additives and friction modifiers than any other type/brand? Who knows? Is there a fluid that might be better? Ah, that's where we get to the debate. Toyota will say no, of course, as they are selling the cars and the fluid. Is any other entity going to step up and say that their fluid is better, for your specific application. Of course, but they are also selling fluid. Is any outside agency going to step up and say that Toyota is full of bunk, Brand A's synthetic fluid has the same additives, yet outperforms the Toyota fluid in every way? No, not going to happen. So it's up to us, as consumers to muddle through.
The only thing going for us is that the market will prevail to some point. Cars makers that are really bad eventually go out of business. But how many people are duped along the way? Remember Daewoo, or the Yugo? And I'm sure there are many more examples.
Good thing this is the Random section.
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Post by SNOtwistR on Jun 5, 2019 10:57:54 GMT -5
My daughter's VW Cabrio with automatic transmission has a real challenge for trans fluid change. It must be done via factory specialized machine that heats the oil to specific temp and inserts the new oil from the bottom plug, the only plug in trans. What a fucked up design. These designers/engineers are idiots. SNO
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Post by jhornbr225 on Jun 5, 2019 15:04:04 GMT -5
Das deutsche.
It's German, it must be better.
But yeah, that sucks. I guess it ensures that the owner, or somebody who does not have the proper tools, can't mess up putting in tranny fluid. It really sucks if you accidentally pull that plug out. Hopefully the head of the bolt in that drain hole is very special, so you look at it and say, "I don't have the tool for that". There are a few stories of that over on the Tacoma forums. People going to change their oil, and not paying close enough attention. They remove the wrong drain plug, and drain about 3 quarts of reddish tranny fluid. Then they think, "OK, not a big deal, I'll just add some". Then they find out there is no dipstick, they do a little research, and find that they have to go down this rabbit hole.
I think manufacturers would be happier if they made a car that would last an exact number of miles/years, then we are forced to buy another one.
But overall, I think cars are lasting longer, tires are lasting longer. Ever hear of Bias ply tires? They didn't last long at all. They wore out before they ever had a chance to dry rot. I need to put new tires on my Miata this year, not because they are worn out, but because they are 20 years old. (They are way overdue). They still have lots of tread, but they say you shouldn't trust any tires over 10 years old.
Hell, when I started driving, I went through a lot of cars in the first few years. Not because of accidents or anything. Just upgrading, finding a deal on something nicer.
The first car my Dad let me drive when I first started driving was a 1975 Mercedes Benz 240D Diesel. Slow as molasses, heavy as a tank, 4 speed manual, non-synchro first gear, 200K miles and it was 11 years old. And that was about the end of it's life. It was rusting from the underside. Now, my 2007 Honda Accord is 12 years old, has 200K miles, but looks pretty good, I'd drive it anywhere.
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Post by revheadkev on Jun 5, 2019 21:05:50 GMT -5
I have a USB based OBDLink SX, and it's associated software, it does codes, and gives me standard PID's but no manufacturer specific ones. At least not that I could find. What Windows programs are you referring to? The particular Windows compatible software which comes with the OBDII reader. If DL has the ability to run a window and embed a Windows program in it, then this should work for you rather than having a specific DL screen and programming to interogate the reader.
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Post by jhornbr225 on Jun 6, 2019 8:25:03 GMT -5
OK, yeah, that program. But it does not do the custom PID's that I need. I thought you meant some specific other Torque-like programs for Windows.
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Post by jhornbr225 on Oct 21, 2019 7:41:31 GMT -5
I finally found the time this weekend to do the tranny fluid change in the truck. I watched a YouTube video by Faye Hadley that showed exactly how to do it. She has the Toyota specific software on her computer, but with the Bluetooth reader, and Torque Pro, it's the same.
I had put it on the rack last week to do this, but found that the heads of the bolts were so rusty, I couldn't get the 5mm Allen bolt out for the level check plug. The drain plug was also a little crunchy. I went to my local Toyota dealer, and got all three plugs, fill, drain, and check. I also got all the crush washers, and the rubber ring for the fill bolt. Faye's video even had the torque specs. I was able to use Vise Grips to crack the level check bolt loose. I was not able to get the Allen wrench fully up into the bolt, so it was starting to round it out
I did the drain and fill 3 times. I then went to do the level check. I warmed it up, and pulled out the check plug. Nothing came out, so it was underfilled. I did do the going through the gears slowly like 5 times after each time I filled. So the wife was up in the truck, with the engine running, watching the temps for me. When nothing came out of the check plug while the engine was running, (underfilled), I told her to shut it off, so I could add more fluid. Suddenly fluid came running out of the check hole. Evidently, the fluid circulating lowers the level in the pan, making the check plug the proper level. Without the engine running, and no fluid circulating, it runs back down to the pan. And if the level check plug is not it, it will drain out of it. Luckily the pan was there, as I was expecting some to trickle out showing that the level was correct. I measured what came out, and I had lost about 400ml before I got the plug back in. Since I had already planned on adding about half a quart to be sure to get it to the right level, I just added the 400ml to that and added what I could pump out of a quart bottle. Then I got it back up to temp, and checked the level again. About 250ml came out before I got the trickle. So I was about a quarter of a quart low. Another thing to remember is that with the pump I have, it leaves about 150-200ml in the bottle. So you have to be sure to dump that into the next bottle you are going to pump, and be sure to do any compensating, knowing that you can't completely empty a bottle by pumping.
I checked on the floor this morning, and the floor was clean, no leaks. It might be a placebo effect, but I think it shifts smoother. Actually I was surprised at the color of the fluid that came out. It really didn't look that bad. I was expecting it to be pretty dark after 83K miles, but it was still pretty pink. I think I'll do this again when I hit the 100K mark, in 17K miles. In the comments of Faye's video, she said that at 120K she usually drops the pan and changes the filter inside. I think I'll do that too.
So at this point, I'm calling it a success.
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