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Post by jhornbr225 on Oct 23, 2017 10:35:54 GMT -5
I know that I had trouble with an anti-theft system after changing the ignition cylinder of a 1999 Acura CL. Those cylinders were known for wearing out and allowing you to remove the key without the car being in park. Checking prices on the key cylinders, it was cheaper to change all the cylinders in the car, then to just buy the ignition cylinder. That gave me the added benefit of keeping the fact that it only took one key to open everything on the car. I found that after I changed the ignition cylinder, the new key's anti-theft chip was not recognized by the car's computer, so it would crank, but not start. I was on good terms with the dealership so they were able to give me the "brake hit" code to be able to start the car. Basically, turn on the key, hit the brake pedal the number of times corresponding to the first digit in the code, then shut the key off. Then turn the key on again, and hit the brake pedal the number of times corresponding to the second digit. I think there were 5 digits. After entering the last digit, the next time you tun the key on, you'll be able to start the car. And then, as long as you don't shut it off for more than ten minutes, it will start again and again. If it goes longer than 10 minutes, you have to re-enter the code. This allows you to drive it to the dealer so they can program in the new key. I paid the dealer to reprogram for the new keys, I forget how much it was. Later, Honda issued a recall, and I was able to send copies of receipts for the parts and the programming and I got my money back. People were taking the keys out without it being in park, and the cars were rolling away, hence the recall.
On the 2007 Accord I have now, I got some new keys for it because it only came with one key, and the writing on the buttons was all worn off. I got a couple keys/remotes from Amazon for like $11, as the key and the remote is all one piece. A local locksmith was able to cut the keys, and program the car. It was also pretty cheap. I think it was $25 or $30 to cut two keys and program the car. So for like $40, I got two new keys/remotes and got them programmed.
I'll be the first to admit I know nothing about GM stuff though.
I'm sure Google is your friend there.
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Post by COMpulse on Oct 23, 2017 13:26:32 GMT -5
The only electronic parts of the car I didn't bring over from the old engine are the coil packs and ignition module, and the injectors (and maybe a couple sensors).
I could probably swap the ignition module and coil packs pretty easy. I already numbered all the plug wires.
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Post by revheadkev on Oct 23, 2017 21:18:32 GMT -5
If you have only changed the engine and some sensors without changing the ignition key, lock or control module then I wouldn't think anything else would be tied into the anti-theft to inhibit from starting.
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Post by flylear45 on Oct 24, 2017 6:49:36 GMT -5
I'd start in this order:
It sounds like the engine is cranking, right? Crank but no start condition? If so, then I'd start by checking the spark at a plug wire. You can get a test light that plugs in to the plug wire, or just pull a plug out, connect the lead, make sure the plug body is grounded, and crank over watching for spark.
If that is good, I'd then move on to the fuel side.
1. Old injectors can become plugged up. 2. The fuel rail often needs to be bled at a fitting on the rail initially, it may have an air pocket in it. Or the pump or pump relay may be bad.
I like to attach a fuel pressure gauge, but your OBD2 MAY read fuel pressure for you. You need to see if you have pressure at the rail somehow or another.
You could squirt some starting fluid into the intake to give a quick check. If it fires then you KNOW it's a fuel supply problem, either pump, injectors clogged or injectors not firing.
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Post by flylear45 on Oct 24, 2017 6:55:20 GMT -5
You may need to find out how to jumper your fuel pump to run continuously to bleed your fuel rail. Often there is a relay that you can remove and jumper across to get it to run with the key on.
There should be a forum out there with guys who have that car who have all those details if you don't have a maintenance manual.
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Post by SNOtwistR on Oct 24, 2017 7:26:17 GMT -5
for spark test go to advance auto or any other parts place and grab one of these little babies. You just rest it on the side of the spark plug wire SNO
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Post by philg on Oct 24, 2017 7:56:09 GMT -5
Manually get a bit of fuel into the intake and see if it kicks. That will narrow down if you are chasing a fuel issue or not. Be careful though...
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Post by COMpulse on Oct 24, 2017 8:47:13 GMT -5
For the plug wires, I've got a tick-tester. That might work as well. Should be interesting to try.
For the fuel pump and bleeding the lines, I will do some research. It did seem like the lines had air in them. But there's a valve on the fuel rail to test pressure. Fuel came out, but didn't spray out at the pressure I expected.
I've considered some starting fluid as well. It's an option.
I'm questioning everything right now, but trying to stick to things that make sense. Maybe I wired the started wrong? Doubt it, but will double-check. Maybe the keys are just out of sync with the security system now. But the key does make the engine try to start. But I think it did that even when it said 'Check Theft System'. I scanned the car. NO CODES!! READY TO ROLL!! But seriously, I didn't think to look at the fuel pressure.
It's getting harder to work after I get home from work. It's chilly, rainy, darker.
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Post by COMpulse on Oct 25, 2017 7:03:20 GMT -5
It cranks. I assume that if the starter was wired wrong, I would get nothing, or a burned up starter.
I confirmed I have fuel pressure with a fuel pressure gauge. 50 psi. I tried bleeding it out, but it's all gasoline. No major air pockets/bubbles.
I will try to check spark tonight. I probably should have done plugs and wires before I put the engine in. I was just trying to slow the nickel-and-dime bleeding of this project. My mistake. A coworker mentioned that the plugs could have oil on the if the engine was ever tipped over on it's side. I doubt it, but I will pull a plug from each bank and see how they look this weekend if I'm still struggling.
It could still be the security system. Some info I've read says the anti-theft disables the injectors and not the pump.
I think I'm going to have to push this back into my garage.
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Post by COMpulse on Oct 25, 2017 18:24:58 GMT -5
I have no spark. At least on the one plug I tested. I will be testing more this weekend. Hoping it's coil pack or ignition module, since that's what I have laying around from the old engine. I'm eyeballing the old block to see how hard it will be to swap them. Doesn't look super fun, but I've had to do worse, I think.
I think bad crank sensor or cam sensor would throw a code, but I'm not sure.
And it could still be the OEM theft system or the aftermarket alarm disabling the ignition.
And my new battery is reading 11.6 volts. Might be time to also try jumping the car, just to see if it makes a difference.
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Post by flylear45 on Oct 25, 2017 19:30:28 GMT -5
OK, Good. You have narrowed the possibilities. Now we DEFINITELY have an ignition problem.
11.6 is a little low. If you have a charger, it would be nice to get it on and get the battery up to 12 volts. Modern ignitions will usually work down to 10V or so, though. (unless it's a Jaguar)
It would be nice to see if you are getting an ignition signal anywhere down the line to the module. That could rule out anti-theft or alarm.
You are closer than you probably feel you are right now.
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Post by flylear45 on Oct 25, 2017 19:34:53 GMT -5
I wouldn't change plug wires just yet. Checking a plug on each bank would be good. You should crank it first to see if the plugs are wet with fuel. That would tell you that the injectors are delivering.
If the spark light isn't lighting though, I have to think that's our focus.
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Post by flylear45 on Oct 25, 2017 19:43:59 GMT -5
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Post by COMpulse on Oct 26, 2017 4:35:35 GMT -5
I've been reading those same pages for days.
I don't think the injectors are firing. I pulled one plug. It wasn't wet with fuel. (it was also only finger-tight in the block.)
I think I need a 'noid light' to check if the injectors are firing next, and a wire piercing probe to check other sensors and connections.
The weekend is coming soon. I need to try to form a plan to make use of the time.
The ignition controls fuel injectors and spark. So, I think we're still leaning toward ignition coils or security system.
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Post by philg on Oct 26, 2017 7:50:42 GMT -5
My bet is on security system but I don't know a ton about how GM does it. I just know to bypass it in a 95 Camaro that I had, a key was soldered into the circuit under the dash. A correct resistor could have done the same job though.
Also regarding piercing the the wires for probing,... if you do that, make sure you seal that tiny hole back up with a dab of silicone or something. Believe it or not, salt water will find it's way in and corrode the wire inside the casing... then good luck finding the open, or worse, intermittent open circuit. You are better to probe on the back end of the connectors when possible.
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